The Mix: Barrasso and Blumenauer on the State of the Union

Length 08:21

Created 01.31.11

Air Date 01.30.11

Video Transcript (opens in a new window)

[McGinnis] One of the things President Obama wants to do about them is spark this country's move to clean energy. And he wasted no time in his State of the Union address. The very first goal he announced was clean energy, which he said can strengthen our security, protect our planet, and create countless jobs. The president urged Congress to make clean energy a national goal, fund scientific education and research, and pay for it in part by dropping tax breaks for oil companies.

[OBAMA] So tonight I challenge you to join me in setting a new goal. By 2035, 80% of America's electricity will come from clean energy sources.

[Applause]

[OBAMA] Some folks want wind and solar; others want nuclear, clean coal, and natural gas. To meet this goal, we will need them all. And I urge Democrats and Republicans to work together to make it happen.

[McGINNIS] Well, can Republicans and Democrats work together to make it happen? Joining me now for theMIX, to talk about what the president said and didn't say, two key energy legislators. Senator John Barrasso, Wyoming Republican, sits on the Energy and Natural Resources Committee and the Environment and Public Works Committee. Also Representative Earl Blumenauer, he's a Democrat from Oregon, sits on the Ways and Means and Budget committees. Welcome to both of you.

[BARRASSO] Thanks so much for having us, Susan.

[McGINNIS] Senator, this clean energy standard, 80% -- will you support that, given the actual sources the president named?

[BARRASSO] I'd like to see the specifics, but, of course, the president also said, "We need it all." We need the renewables. We need to be more efficient in how we use our energy, but we do need the coal, the uranium for nuclear power, the oil, the gas -- we need it all. The world demands for energy are going to go way up between now and 2035. The numbers are astonishing, and I think we need to make energy as clean as we can, as fast as we can, but do it in a way that doesn't raise costs for American families.

[McGINNIS] I guess it's a matter of determining what's clean. He's naming nuclear, clean coal -- which is not viable commercially yet -- and natural gas. Would you support that clean energy standard?

[BARRASSO] I would love to have those things. The president right now says 40% of our electricity in the United States comes from clean energy sources, and we have a lot of coal in Wyoming. It is cheap, so it's affordable, it's available.

[BLUMENAUER] The majority of states have already made commitments to a renewable portfolio standard. The president is absolutely right to try and steer us in this direction. We cannot survive on the planet if we're going to have huge use of dirty coal.

[McGINNIS] Dirty coal is about the only thing he's leaving out. What do you say about supporting this with nuclear in it?

[BLUMENAUER] What we need to do is to be very clear, both in terms of the standard, and also allow the economics to move forward. There are huge subsidies right now for industries that don't need it. The president -- in terms of what's going to happen with oil. The subsidies for the nuclear industry need to be put on a footing -- Right now, we are starving the renewables. The renewables get a fraction of the support that we have given to nuclear and to petroleum, and this is a source of energy for the future that makes a big difference.

[McGINNIS] Okay, so speaking of subsidies, let's listen to another bite the president mentioned in his State of the Union speech. I know you're going to remember this one.

[OBAMA] We need to get behind this innovation. And to help pay for it, I'm asking Congress to eliminate the billions in taxpayer dollars we currently give to oil companies.

[Applause]

[OBAMA] I don't know if you've noticed, but they're doing just fine on their own. So, instead of subsidizing yesterday's energy, let's invest in tomorrow's.

[McGINNIS] That's going to meet some stiff resistance from industry and from many in Congress. This sounds like the same tax breaks the president tried to eliminate earlier. Congress never agreed to that; why would they agree now? Congressman?

[BLUMENAUER] Well, there are two things that come into the fore. One is that people are starting to realize that it's a zero-sum game with our subsidies on the tax side of the equation. And we have a deficit -- We have to be clear about what we are supporting. It makes much more sense to support renewable energy that needs it than petroleum that doesn't.

[McGINNIS] The president wants to add $8 billion in new clean energy funding into the budget. Can this be funded?

[BARRASSO] Well, it's a matter of how you do it. Clearly, we have a huge debt in this country. The debt is irresponsible; it's unsustainable. We can't continue with the kind of spending that we have now. But for the man and woman at home, they're paying over $3 a gallon at the pump. They're concerned whenever they see anything that may actually raise that cost for them. The president's own budget, his deficit commission has suggested raising the price at the pump, gasoline prices --

[McGINNIS] What about eliminating these subsidies? Would that lead to higher prices?

[BARRASSO] I would think it would raise the cost at the pump; it would impact on that.

[McGINNIS] So can these goals be funded with better loan guarantee programs, faster permitting?

[BARRASSO] What we've seen in terms of the renewables is that so much of the subsidies have really been the only way that some of these companies have survived. These renewables have not been able to compete economically in the world of energy, so you need to say what are the ways that we can make the available, affordable sources of energy as clean as we can, as fast as we can, because that's the way to not raise the cost for American families, especially when you're competing -- as we had the president of China recently here, what his concerns were, and his goal to make the dollar kind of a currency of the past.

[McGINNIS] Do you think the stimulus funding is working for the solar companies?

[BLUMENAUER] This is a classic example of where we have it on its head. We have a global price of petroleum, so if it really does drive down the price, it's driving down the price more for the Chinese, for the Japanese, for the European, at the expense of the American taxpayer. They don't need it to explore for oil. If we put that into helping emerging technologies -- The price of wind, the price of solar is going down dramatically. You're right, every year it's a scramble because these things have to be renewed. Unlike petroleum, that doesn't need it, and it's permanent.

[McGINNIS] The industry would argue, they spend millions on very risky exploration.

[BLUMENAUER] And they will do so anyway because of the price. But that's not the case of solar and wind. So if we made a shift to give permanent support, or longer-term support -- I don't think it should be forever, but when these things get on their feet, we can wean it away, but that's not what we did for oil.

[BARRASSO] The other issue is energy security. As a nation, we continue to send hundreds of billions of dollars overseas to people who are not our friends in the Middle East, and we need to be using all the sources of American energy that we can. And that's the renewable. It's clearly being more efficient. And people tend to overestimate what they save and underestimate what they use, but it's also the red, white, and blue jobs that power this country. It's all of those sources that the president talked about with clean energy -- coal, oil, gas, and uranium.

[McGINNIS] How about facing facts here that only Congress can pass legislation and it doesn't look like there's going to be action on anything the president said in his speech?

[BLUMENAUER] Well, I, for one, disagree. I think the pressures, in terms of, we're watching a whole emerging clean energy technology. And you talk about security, they can't take away our sun, they can't take away our wind. But we are dependent on imported oil, and that's going to get worse over time. We only have a tiny fraction. So I think the pressures on the deficit and the emergence of clean technology sets a dynamic where I think it is actually possible to move forward. Senator Lugar had a very interesting speech about energy conservation. I think there are some possibilities in this Congress.

[McGINNIS] Senator Barrasso, Congressman Blumenauer, thank you for your insights.

[BARRASSO] Thanks for having us.

[McGINNIS] Now let's get you plugged in to some of the top energy news. In his State of the Union address, President Obama also said that with more research and incentives, the U.S. can become the first country with one million electric vehicles on the roads by 2015. And to drive home that point, Vice President Biden traveled to an advanced battery plant in Indiana to talk about how we'll get there. One way -- turning the current $7,500 tax credit for buying an electric car into a direct cash rebate from the dealer. Another, having communities compete to embrace EVs. The White House wants to offer up to $10 million in grants to 30 communities for innovative solutions.

The co-chairman of the president's commission on the BP oil spill testified on Capitol Hill. And House Republicans slammed the report as biased and incomplete. The report concluded the Deepwater Horizon disaster showed systemic safety problems in the offshore oil industry. Republicans said offshore drilling is crucial for the economy.

[DUNCAN] We are facing bankruptcy because we have not been able to develop our fossil fuels. Yet the commission, the majority of them, in fact, all of them, are -- intent is not to have fossil fuels. And I think that's inappropriate.

[McGINNIS] Democrats called for immediate action on the oil spill commission's recommendations.

And the White House is saying goodbye to its top energy and climate advisor, Carol Browner. The former EPA administrator under President Clinton is stepping down. She was heavily involved in congressional negotiations over climate legislation.

Well, still ahead, heading into battle for clean energy. We'll show you how the Navy and the Marines are leading the charge to switch to alternative fuels.

Plus, former CIA Director James Woolsey, practicing what he preaches on cutting U.S. dependence on oil -- an inside look at his energy-efficient home.

[PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON, STATE OF THE UNION, 1974] In all of the 186 State of the Union messages delivered from this place in our history, this is the first in which the one priority, the first priority is energy.

Sen. John Barrasso, R-WY, says he'd like to support President Obama's call for the nation to get 80 percent of its electricity from clean energy by 2035, but he's still uneasy about the specifics and the technology. Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-OR, says the majority of states are already headed in the direction the president wants, so it makes sense for the rest of the nation to follow. The two lawmakers tell Susan McGinnis their reactions to the energy initiatives the president announced in his State of the Union message.

Barrasso says it was remarkable that the president endorsed so many different forms of energy, including clean coal. He says America needs commodities that Wyoming has, like coal, uranium for nuclear plants and natural gas, because world energy demand will soar in the next 25 years. He says we need to make energy as clean as we can, as fast as we can, without raising costs for American families. As for supporting the president's call, Barrasso says he's like to see the technology developed to make maximum use of all those clean sources of energy. He says America needs to make sure that other countries like China and India are using that technology as well, because it's best to have everyone around the world using the best technology and the cleanest means of producing energy. What he doesn't want is to have renewable energy become the least expensive form of energy by making other forms more expensive. He says raising the cost of traditional forms of energy could be damaging to energy security and economic growth.

Barrasso says the president's call for $8 billion in new clean energy funding may not play well with Americans at home and already concerned about their energy costs. He says Obama's call to end oil subsidies will result in an increase in the price of gasoline. He says renewable energy companies that get subsidies or stimulus funding often burn through them with no results. He cites firms in Massachusetts and California that received hundreds of millions in stimulus money and are now cutting jobs. He says renewables can't compete economically, and it makes more sense to make available, affordable energy sources cleaner. He says for the sake of energy security, the U.S. needs to use all the sources of domestic energy that it can to achieve economic growth.

Blumenauer says his support for a clean energy standard will depend on the definition of “clean.” He says it's not just carbon emissions. Particulates and mercury from coal burning have to be considered, too. He says the majority of states have already made commitments to a renewable portfolio standard, and the president is correct to try to steer the nation in that direction. He says the planet can't survive with huge use of dirty coal. He believes the standard should be very clear, and it needs to work economically, by giving renewable energy subsidies that are level with those of nuclear power and fossil fuels. He says it makes much more sense to subsidize renewable energy that needs the money, rather than fossil fuels that don't. Blumenauer recalls that former President George W. Bush said fossil fuels would not need subsidies when the price of oil reached $50 per barrel. The last price he checked was $89 per barrel.

Blumenauer says when the fluctuating global price of petroleum drops, it goes down more for India and China than it does for the United States because of the subsidies American oil companies get. It makes more sense, he says, to fund renewable sources of energy whose costs are going down. He says wind and solar companies scramble every year to renew subsidies that are permanent for oil. And while oil companies say those tax breaks are needed to fund risky exploration, Blumenauer says those companies will do that exploration anyway because of oil's price. He says a shift to longer term support will help renewables industries become more competitive with oil.

Blumenauer disagrees that most of the president's ideas will die in Congress. He says pressure from the large federal budget deficit and emerging clean energy technology will make it possible to move forward with an energy bill.