Susan McGinnis: Well, earlier we told you about new electric vehicles headed for showrooms, seen as one answer to our dependence on foreign oil. Joining us now for theMIX and a look at whether we can ever break our insatiable oil habit and what it might take. From Dallas, we have CEO of BP Capital, Boone Pickens, and here in the energyNOW! studio is Delaware Senator Tom Carper. He is behind a Bill right now aimed at eliminating America’s dependence on oil, foreign oil by the year 2030. Sara Banaszak, a Senior Economist with the American Petroleum Institute. Welcome to all of you.

Tom Carper: Thank you.

Sara Banaszak: Thank you.

Susan McGinnis: Boone, I want to start with you, because EV’s are a part of the Pickens plan. What kind of a dent do you think these could make? I mean anything significant, 250 million cars on the road right now.

Boone Pickens: Well, I mean any help that we can do with American vehicles and American fuel, we’ve got to get on our own resources and so this would be one -- it’s not the solution, but it could certainly help. And there -- you know, but what we don’t want to do is get off of Saudi oil and get on a Chinese battery.

Susan McGinnis: Talking about EV’s though, there is so much momentum behind them. I’m just trying to get a sense of, are there any hard numbers as far as the kind of a dent these can make when it comes to foreign oil and over what time period; also because the big question is are we ever going to buy them?

Is the consumer going to buy them? Because look at the prices of Electric Vehicles right now. The Volt is looking at about $41,000. Nissan Leaf, more than $32,000, this is before a rebate though. The Focus Ford tells us that the price is going to be in line with the Nissan Leaf. Do you think enough people are going to be able to afford them to make a difference in foreign oil?

Tom Carper: Pretty expensive, until you add in the tax credit. Well, after a tax credit of about $6,000 or $7,000 for these vehicles. Most of the electric vehicles that are going to be sold will not be just strictly electric vehicles. They will be the Flex-fuel plug-in hybrid vehicles.

Susan McGinnis: Well, a new survey says 53% of Americans, this was out just last week, say they wouldn’t buy an electric vehicle. Are you seeing any -- are there any numbers coming out of API that say we are expecting any of these to have this kind of a dent in oil demand?

Sara Banaszak: No, I mean what we have seen over time is that these energy transitions occur over very long periods of time. You look at the rise of coal, the rise of oil, you’re talking 30, 40, 50 years. And I expect, when you think about all the infrastructure change out that needs to occur, the competitive pricing that needs to occur in the long run without the tax incentives, and the evolution of how often does somebody buy a new car, the roll out of the infrastructure, we expect it to take time.

Susan McGinnis: Does API believe we need to move off of oil?

Sara Banaszak: I think there is a place for oil in our future. First of all, it’s doing a lot more than just fueling our transportation. I mean, you’re going to go to the hospital and get clean medical products that prevent infection, because you have clean sterile plastics that come from petroleum. So, you can’t just discount oil.

Boone Pickens: You know, my concern is security. And we import 5 million barrels a day from the Mideast, but let’s say that 8 million heavy duty, 18 wheelers. If those go to natural gas, that will cut OPEC in half.

Susan McGinnis: I want to show you guys exactly some of the countries where most of our imported oil comes from and some folks may be surprised by this that a third of our imports come from Canada and Mexico. Another third comes from these three countries. Now, we have Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela. Senator Carper is your biggest concerned where the dollars are going, that the countries that are importing from or simply the vast amount of our dollars that are going elsewhere?

Tom Carper: Our nation’s trade deficit, Susan, is down from about $700 billion in 2008.

Susan McGinnis: This is half of our trade deficit that goes to oil.

Tom Carper: To about 500 billion now. About half of it is oil. And we don’t -- we can -- it’s not sustainable for us to have trade deficits that large.

Susan McGinnis: How about this solution that seems to be the only proven answer to reducing consumption, reducing demand for foreign oil? I don’t know how much of it political, I guess we do know how much of a political hot potato this is. Higher gas prices, it works but it’s not going to happen is it?

Tom Carper: A guy named Samuelson, Robert Samuelson has suggested, why don’t we raise the gas tax like a penny a month for a period of year or two?

Susan McGinnis: Let people adjust over time.

Tom Carper: Yeah, a year or two, when they’re thinking about the next car, truck, or van they’re going to -- since the price segment says look, the price is going to be trending up, so keep that in mind when you buy your vehicle.

Susan McGinnis: So, you’d be in favor of that?

Tom Carper: Oh, yes!

Sara Banaszak: And the only tricky consideration to that is that there are people, you know, people rule people who are low income and rely on this form of transportation. So, they are going to be -- in a way as you do that you are imposing an increasingly more recessive tax on the lowest income earners, many of whom are going to --

Susan McGinnis: There is no pack it doesn’t have pay-in for some group.

Tom Carper: When you move for a vehicle that’s getting 20 miles per gallon, the one that gets 40 miles per gallon and you pay like an extra $0.10 or $0.20 per gallon of gas. I mean you save money in the end, if you buy the more energy efficient vehicle.

Susan McGinnis: Give us a reality check Boone. We have Daniel Yergin from CERA, a well known oil expert talking about net really, “Oh, foreign oil independence is never going to happen?”

Boone Pickens: I would propose that we have a North American energy alliance and work together with Mexico, Canada, and the United States. We can provide things for them, they can help us, they have the oil, we are in need of oil; but go back to the numbers. There’s 85 million barrels of oil produced everyday. We use 21 million of that, we import 13 million of our 21, but we are using 25% of all the oil with only 4% of the population; that is not sustainable. You’re going to have to figure out something different than that.

Susan McGinnis: Okay. We’re going to have to end it there. Thanks everybody for your insight. I really appreciate it. Boone Pickens from Dallas, thank you so much. Sara Banaszak from API, and Senator Tom Carper, we appreciate your insight.

Tom Carper: From Delaware.

Susan McGinnis: From Delaware.

Tom Carper: Yeah.